Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Tyler Turkle

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Sarahj2107 (talk) 08:26, 15 December 2014 (UTC)

Tyler Turkle

Tyler Turkle (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)

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appears non-notable. Most of the sources seem to be passing mentions, as opposed to detailed and about him as an artist. There may also be some copyvio issues, but may be backwards copying going on as well. --Mdann52talk to me! 17:13, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

• delete as hoax, ban the Wikipedian globally as chronic hoax-producer. JSTOR shows 0 mentions. Google Scholar shows only a single self-made reference inserted into World-Cat. I think we, and not only us, have been conned, starting in 2008. I suggest that impeccable art historian sourcing be consulted. The artist is not mentioned by the Metropolitan Museum's art history series encyclopedic review addressing the subject of Plastic in Arts: http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/hd/mome/hd_mome.htm . --Mareklug ^talk 17:39, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

delete unless better evidence of notability can be found. I searched for a while and had no luck. He's had about 5 pieces sell at auction in Sweden, which isn't very significant for someone who's apparently been an artist for over 40 years. The sources cited are evidence of particular 'facts', and not even of the claims that would indicate any real notability. As far as I can tell from searching, no critic of note has ever discussed him. Revent^talk 17:41, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

• Delete, ban. DS (talk) 19:06, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. -Fimatic (talk | contribs) 02:47, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Ohio-related deletion discussions. -Fimatic (talk | contribs) 02:47, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. -Fimatic (talk | contribs) 02:47, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Film-related deletion discussions. -Fimatic (talk | contribs) 02:47, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

• delete - especially per the research done by Mareklug and Revent. With the amount of time since the article was created notability seems to have decreased. MarnetteD|Talk 05:21, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Florida-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 16:57, 9 December 2014 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Academics and educators-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 16:57, 9 December 2014 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Actors and filmmakers-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 16:57, 9 December 2014 (UTC)

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Thank you for reading my appeal… Respected editors, I am appalled at this “synergistic hunt” that I believe was started when Mr. Revent wrote December 7th on the Proposed Deletions Page; it seems to have missed this page. It has been suggested by Mr. Revent that Webmeister1 and Tyler Turkle are 1 simply due to the fact that I (Webmeister1) uploaded images and placed into the “Source” category the words “Own Work”. I have just explained to Mr. Revent on his talk page that I did so because I believed I was to upload accurate information about the producer of the product who is Tyler Turkle - plain and simple. This is why I stated the source as "Own Work" because it is his "Own Work". If I was in error for doing so in this manner then I stand corrected, but to begin from that point to assume Mr. Turkle as a hoax is not right. To use words such as “ ban the Wikipedian globally as chronic hoax-producer” and that you “have been conned” are rather harsh and possibly harassment, especially having justified the words on such a basic user error. I implore you to reconsider this deletion you are proposing and to cease the defamation that seems to be continuing.

Extended content

Tyler Turkle Wikipedia Page Earlier I wrote this experience as a “synergistic hunt” because of the snowball that started with my error in uploading to Wiki Commons. Mr. Turkle is an American Contemporary Artist and Filmmaker, and if you please take the time to review the sources and references I have provided on his Wikipedia page you will see that his work has been shown in many notable shows and he has produced many American Contemporary films. Mr. Turkle’s work with plastic is unique. It is a painstaking many hours process of the flowing of multiple layers of plastic. It is this style of art that makes his technique most unique. Respected Editors, I ask you, is it a dollar amount that must be met to make it to Wikipedia. How many pieces must an artist sell before their Wikipedia page is not banned? I dare say, but I must for my own sanity, I feel as though the efforts that have been put forth towards the removal of any and all of Mr. Tyler’s art, and now his Wikipedia page, is a slap to, and an attack on American Contemporary Art and Artists. Banning this artist, as well as others due to some level of socially acceptable level of notoriety will only serve to “leash” future American Contemporary Artist who play such a wonderful and important role in holding us together as a nation. Coatrack There was mention that the Plastic in Art page that I (Webmeister1) edited was a “Coatrack”. Until this day I did not know what “Coatrack” was, but I do now. I understand now that the way I edited could be construed as that. I will work to provide a better product in the future. Thank you for understanding that not all Wikipedia Editors can be as proficient as you, we are learning. I wish to work with you in amicably working toward restoring the pages that have been so unjustly removed. Thank you for this consideration… I will also post this to the undelete request page.Webmeister1 (talk) 03:23, 10 December 2014 (UTC) @Webmeister1: Please read WP:BASIC. Notability is not decided on the basis of value judgements by Wikipedia editors. Notability is demonstrated by the fact that multiple independent, reliable sources have 'taken note' of the subject, and is demonstrated by the fact that they have written about him in some degree of detail. If Mr. Turkle is a notable artist, then his work will have been written about by known art critics. Demonstrate that, and you have an article. All the other statements you made above are irrelevant to the topic at hand on this page. The image deletions at commons had nothing to do with the topic here, but were based on the fact that the particular works were themselves derivatives of copyrighted works, and thus not allowed on commons. Reventtalk 03:52, 10 December 2014 (UTC) ———————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————— Thank you for your expeditious reply. Reliable sources have recognized this American Contemporary Artist and Filmmaker and he is worthy of being recognized as an American Contemporary Artist. I am providing to you a list of reliable Individual Exhibitions, Group Exhibitions, Publications from know art critics, Bibliographies, public and Museum locations all of which have either featured, written about or exhibited Mr. Turkle's works. I appeal to the consensus to not permit the deletion of Tyler Turkle's Wikipedia page and to allow this American Contemporary Artist and Filmmaker to continue his page. Publications “Benny ‘Kid’ Paret,” Tricia Collins and Richard Milazzo; NEW OBSERVATIONS, No. 46, March, 1987 “Artistic Anatomy,” BOMB, No. IIX, Fall 1987 “Recalling Psychedelia,” Carlo McCormick; HIGH TIMES, August, 1986 “Spiritual America,” CEPA QUARTERLY, Spring, 1986 “What is Black and Blue and Read All Over?,” NEW OBSERVATIONS, No. 28, 1985 “I Plead the Fifth,” EFFECTS : MAGAZINE FOR NEW ART THERORY, No. 1, Summer 1983 Bibliography “Peeling Through the Layers,” Mary Ann Marger; ST. PETERSBURG TIMES, Sept. 26,1997 “The Concept Is What Counts,” Mary Ann Marger; ST. PETERSBURG TIMES, June 29, 1992 “Genetic Aesthetic,” CONNOISSEUR, June, 1991 “Buena Vista,” Dana Shottenkirk; CONTEMPORANEA, March, 1990 “Buena Vista,” Alan Jones; TEMA CELESTE, January/March, 1990 “Tyler Turkle – Plastic Water and The Last Criterion,” Craig Adcock; TEMA CELESTE, January 1990 “Review: Tyler Turkle,” Eleanor Heartney; ART IN AMERICA, January, 1990 “New York Scene,” Steven Kaplan; ETC MONTREAL, Winter, 1989 “David Carrino, Charles Clough, Tyler Turkle,” Tricia Collins and Richard Milazzo; BOTTOM LINE, December 1989 “Tyler Turkle,” Marjorie Welish; ARTS, December, 1989 “Review: Tyler Turkle/Greenberg Wilson Gallery,” James Lewis; ARTFORUM, December 1989 “New This Week – Tyler Turkle,” Amy Barasch; 7 DAYS, September 27, 1989 “The CABLE Gallery,” Gary Indiana; HG, April, 1988 “Exhibit Abounds With a Messy Vitality,” Christopher Hume; TORONTO STAR, October 3, 1987 “Nexus Show Gently Buries the Corpse of the Avant-Garde,” Pam Perry; CREATIVE LOAFING, January 24, 1987 “Modern Twists, Has Little Momentum,” Catherine Fox; ATLANTA JOURNAL-CONSTITUTION, January 18, 1987 “Ultrasurd,” PARACHUTE, Winter 1986-1987 “Easy Pieces,” Gary Indiana; VILLAGE VOICE, December 22, 1986 Group Exhibitions 2006 “Currency: Art as Money/Money as Art,” Mary Brogan Musuem of Art and Science, Tallahassee, Florida – catalogue 2002 “Florida Photogenesis,” Southeast Museum of Photography, Daytona Beach, Florida 2001 “Florida Photogenesis,” Appleton Museum of Art, Ocala, Florida 2000 “Florida Photogenesis,” Florida State University Museum, Tallahassee, Florida – curated by Robert Fichter – catalogue “Basel Art Fair Preview,” zingmagazine and Tricia Collins Contemporary Art, Basel, Switzerland 1998 “Fashioned,” White Box Gallery, New York, New York – curated by Suzan Batu and Bill Dougherty – catalogue “Fashioned,” White Box Gallery, Philadelphia, PA – curated by Suzan Batu and Bill Dougherty 1997 “Bang! The Gun as Image,” Florida State University Art Museum, Tallahassee, FL – curated by George Blakeley – catalogue “The Resonance of Paint,” Dunedin Fine Arts Center, Dunedin, Florida – curated by Genevieve Linnehan 1996 “Capital Film Festival," Miracle Theatre, Tallahassee, FL 1995 “44th Biennial Exhibition of Contemporary American Painting,” Corcoran Gallery of Art, Washington, D.C. – curated by Terrie Sultan – catalogue-essay by Eleanor Heartney “A Vital Matrix,” Domestic Settings, Los Angeles, CA – curated by Jane Hart – boxed edition and catalogue 1994 “PUBER-ALLES,” Stedelijk Museum Bureau, Amsterdam, The Netherlands 1993 “Tower of Babel,” HERE, New York, New York – organized by Troy Maier “One of Us,” Kunsthal, Rotterdam, The Netherlands, – organized by Mark Wilson and Cokkie Snoei 1992 “Art Show,” New York Downtown Hospital, New York, New York – curated by Troy Maier “St. Vitus On Ecstasy: Eco-MusÈe For Dance and Illness,” Suzanne Biederberg Gallery, Amsterdam, The Netherlands “Painterly Object,” S. Bitter Larkin Gallery, New York, New York “Epigrams for the Mirror Blind,” Momentary Modern Gallery, Amsterdam, The Netherlands 1991 “New Era Space,” New York, New York – curated by Collins & Milazzo “A New Low,” Claudio Botello Gallery, Turin, Italy – curated by Collins & Milazzo – catalogue “Outside America,” Fay Gold Gallery, Atlanta, Georgia – curated by Collins & Milazzo – catalogue 1990 “All Quiet on the Western Front?,” Espace Dieu, Paris, France – organized by GÈrard Delsol and Antoine Candau – catalogue “Pools,” Modus Vivendi, Zurich / Art Moderne, Moscow – curated by Nancy Jones – catalogue essay by Robert Mahoney “Twentieth Anniversary Benefit,” White Columns, New York, New York – curated by Bill Arning “Fragments, Parts, Wholes; The Body and Culture,” White Columns, New York, New York – curated by Saul Ostrow “The Last Laugh,” Massimo Audiello Gallery, New York, New York – curated by Collins & Milazzo “Joseph Nechvatal, Andres Serrano, Tyler Turkle,” Barbara Gillman Gallery, Miami, Florida – curated by Joe Jacobs 1989 “Buena Vista,” John Gibson Gallery, New York, New York – curated by Collins & Milazzo – catalogue “Group Show,” Galerie Antoine Candau, Paris, France “Featuring Florida,” John and Mable Ringling Museum of Art, Sarasota, Florida – curated by Joe Jacobs – catalogue “R.M. Fischer, Laurie Simmons, Tyler Turkle, William Wegman,” Greenberg Wilson Gallery, New York, New York “Made in Florida,” University of South Florida Art Museum, Tampa, Florida – curated by Margaret Miller, Joe Jacobs and David Courtney – catalogue “Science Projects,” Lafayette College, Easton, Pennsylvania – curated by Janet Borden – catalogue “41st Biennial Exhibition of Contemporary American Painting,” Corcoran Gallery of Art, Washington, D.C. – curated by William Fagaly – catalogue “More Made in Florida,” Gillman Stein Gallery, Tampa, Florida 1988 “Traveling,” Althea Viafora Gallery, New York, New York – curated by Luis DeJesus “Art At The End Of The Social,” Rooseum, Malmo, Sweden – curated by Collins & Milazzo – catalogue “Life Like,” Lorence-Monk Gallery, New York, New York – curated by Marvin Heiferman 1987 “Modern Art Since 1984,” Nexus Contemporary Art Center, Atlanta, Georgia – curated by Louise Shaw and Virginia Wright with Ron Jones and Robert Nickas – catalogue “Art Against Aids,” New York, New York – curated by Anne Livet and Stephen Reichard “Benefit Show,” White Columns, New York, New York – organized by Bill Arning “The Glittering Prize,” Stux Gallery, New York, New York – curated by Bill Arning 1987 “The Atlanta Biennial,” Nexus Contemporary Art Center, Atlanta, Georgia – curated by Alan Sondheim 1986 “Update,” White Columns, New York, New York – curated by Bill Arning – catalogue “Ultrasurd,” S.L. Simpson Gallery, Toronto, Canada – curated by Collins & Milazzo catalogue “Retroactive,” Hallwalls, Buffalo, New York – curated by Catherine Howe – catalogue “Spiritual America,” C.E.P.A., Buffalo, New York – curated by Collins & Milazzo 1984 “Still Life With Transaction,” International with Monument, New York, New York – curated by Collins & Milazzo “Still Life With Transaction,” Galerie Jurka, Amsterdam, The Netherlands “New Capital,” White Columns, New York, New York – curated by Collins & Milazzo 1980 "New Orleans Triennial," New Orleans Museum of Art, New Orleans, Louisiana – curated by Marcia Tucker and William Fagaly – catalogue 1978 Sherwood Oaks Experimental Film Festival, Sherwood Oaks College, Hollywood, California – Documentary Award 1977 Bellevue Film Festival, Seattle, Washington 1976 Independent Filmmakers Exposition, Brooklyn College, Brooklyn, New York 1975 “Three Young Filmmakers,” Herbert F. Johnson Museum, Cornell University, Ithaca, New York Penn State Film Festival, Penn State University, University Park, Pennsylvania “Exchange: Dallas, Fort Worth/San Francisco, Oakland,” Fort Worth Art Museum, Fort Worth, Texas “Exchange: Dallas, Fort Worth/San Francisco, Oakland,” San Francisco Museum of Art, San Francisco, California 1974 Athens International Film Festival, University of Ohio, Athens, Ohio Individual Exhibitions 2007 “Plastic History”, Gadsden Arts Center, Quincy, Florida 2006 “Tyler Turkle – Films and Videos”, Tallahassee Film Society/All Saints Cinema, Tallahassee, Florida 1992 “Plastic Criteria,” Contemporary Art Museum – University of South Florida, Tampa,Florida – catalogue 1991 “Curtains,” Greenberg Wilson Gallery, New York, New York 1989 “Last Criterion,” Greenberg Wilson Gallery, New York, New York “Plastic Water,” Greenberg Wilson Gallery, New York, New York 1988 “Newest Criterion,” Greenberg Wilson Gallery, New York, New York 1987 “New Criterion,” CABLE, New York, New York 1986 “Plastic History,” White Columns, New York, New York Webmeister1 (talk) 18:47, 10 December 2014 (UTC)

• Delete, but willing to reconsider. Emotional appeals and extensive lists of exhibits don't constitute significant coverage of the artist. Arguments for keeping must be grounded in Wikipedia policies and guidelines. We need to see evidence of significant coverage of the artist (not just his works) in reliable, independent sources. That's all that matters. Other than the coverage in Press Democrat (that's a good source and good coverage but it's in the External links section, not used as a reference), what else is there? Would the proponent please explain what in the bibliography listed above constitutes coverage, more than a trivial mention of the artist, and more than a picture of a work in an exhibition? ~Amatulić (talk) 19:51, 10 December 2014 (UTC)

Thank you again for this opportunity. I do understand about "emotional appeals" it is just that I don't feel American contemporary Artists are being represented so it is important to me, sorry to have come out of the box that way. I am providing some additional coverage as you requested. I do appreciate this consideration.

Tallahassee Newspaper Review

Art show Review American Newspaper

Canyon Cinema Review

Oyster Boy Review

Canyon Cinema Salon - Recently Mr. Turkle was invited as the presenting Artist Filmmaker Webmeister1 (talk) 01:16, 11 December 2014 (UTC)

OK, so we have two reviews in a low-circulation local paper, two pages on the website of a local theater (not reliable as the purpose is to promote their business, and arguably not independent since they're showing his films), and the oysterboy one is just a list of photographs. The Tallahassee Democrat pieces are decent coverage but I'd like to see something more significant than local coverage. I'm not seeing significant coverage of the subject by reliable sources that are independent of the subject. At this point my view to delete is unchanged. ~Amatulić (talk) 17:52, 12 December 2014 (UTC)

• Keep - Thank you, I would like to provide additional evidence of coverage.

NOTE: For many of the Exhibitions I have listed above when they read "catalog" at the end that means that the coverage of Mr. Turkle has been cataloged and is available for review. Some can be purchased.

NOTE: Within the list of Collins & Milazzo Exhibitions Wikipedia page, Mr. Turkle is noted many times as having exhibited in their exhibitions.

Below are a few of exhibition catalogs that will show an excerpt of Mr. Turkle's presence in the catalog:

The 41st biennial exhibition of contemporary American painting, Corcoran Gallery of Art, William Fagaly

The 44th biennial exhibition of contemporary American painting, Corcoran Gallery of Art, Terri Sultan

Plastic Water – Art Magazine, Volume 64, Donald Sultan

“A New Low,” Claudio Botello Gallery, Turin, Italy – curated by Collins & Milazzo – catalogue
Webmeister1 (talk) 04:13, 12 December 2014 (UTC)

Exhibition catalogs are not independent sources because they have a relationship with the artist. And the Plastic Water magazine doesn't mention Turkle at all, as far as I can see. I don't believe you are understanding Wikipedia's requirements for evidence of notability. We need independent and reliable sources, preferably with an audience larger than a narrow niche, that provide significant coverage of Turkle. ~Amatulić (talk) 18:00, 12 December 2014 (UTC)

• Delete -Subject lacking significant coverage in multiple secondary, independent and reliable sources doesn't merit a Wikipedia article and qualifies for deletion. Anupmehra -Let's talk! 17:31, 12 December 2014 (UTC)

• Comment - After researching the meaning of notability for living people as applied on several sample category pages (e.g. Florida State University Faculty, Kent State Alumni, or University of Mount Union alumni), it would appear that approximately every other entry should be deleted according the standards mentioned above. Also, the concerns raised do not seem to be severe according to the deletion policy, leaving me to wonder why they weren't first raised in the related talk page. I am by no means an expert on the editorial process, but this is confusing to me. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mycotn (talk • contribs) 23:06, 13 December 2014 (UTC) — Mycotn (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

@Mycotn: You may find WP:OSE an interesting reading in this context. Anupmehra -Let's talk! 08:29, 14 December 2014 (UTC)

• Delete. I can find enough evidence on Google books to convince me that he exists (at least to the same extent Banksy exists: a name on some artworks with no personal detail behind it). And he appears to have worked with or shown with Serrano, who is unquestionably notable. But the only thing I saw that looked like nontrivial coverage of him (as opposed to announcements of showings, or one-sentence mentions in reviews of group shows) was this magazine article link that I can't actually read because it's only on snippet view. Being online is not a requirement for our sources, but evidence that one source exists (without the source itself) is not the in-depth coverage in *multiple* sources required by WP:GNG or WP:ARTIST. —David Eppstein (talk) 01:57, 14 December 2014 (UTC)
• Exists? of course he exists. Mr. Turkle's art and films have been in exhibitions, museums and shown all over the world. For an American Contemporary Artist this is an accomplishment. His art using the painstaking process of flowing multiple layers of plastic is unique. No one else uses this technique.

I would not say that these articles are nontrival as was suggested that nothing other than announcements of showings were available:
Canyon Cinema
FAb Four Art Show
"Last of a Kind" Film ReviewWebmeister1 (talk) 16:11, 14 December 2014 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.